The following discussion took place during a translation meeting on The Rain of Wisdom at the 1979 Vajradhatu Seminary. Present at the meeting were the Vidyadhara (VCTR), Robin Kornman (RK), Jud Levinson (JL), Larry Mermelstein (LM), John Rockwell (JR), and Scott Wellenbach (SW). This edited transcript represents only a fraction of the entire discussion, which will appear soon on the Nalanda Translation Committee's website under Translation Offerings.
VCTR: That is why it is called the "fourth moment beyond the three." It is so minute. It is subtle and vajra, like the middle of space.
JL: Therefore it is outside of time.
JL: Therefore there is no karma.
LM: Since coemergence occurs before the luminous alaya, could the result or footprint of coemergence tie into the experience of that alaya? It comes after you have coemerged, but you notice it somewhat after the fact. There is some dropping of fixation, but it is not complete, since there is still some samsaric mind.
.....In Australian Aboriginal mythology, The Dreaming or Altjeringa (also called the Dreamtime) is a sacred 'once upon a time' in which ancestral Totemic Spirit Beings formed The Creation.
Fred Alan Wolf opens chapter nine of The Dreaming Universe (1994) entitled The Dreamtime with a quote from The Last Wave, a film by Peter Weir: Aboriginals believe in two forms of time; two parallel streams of activity. One is the daily objective activity, the other is an infinite spiritual cycle called the "dreamtime", more real than reality itself. Whatever happens in the dreamtime establishes the values, symbols, and laws of Aboriginal society. It was believed that some people of unusual spiritual powers had contact with the dreamtime
The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep - Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche
"If we cannot carry our practice into sleep," Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche writes, "if we lose ourselves every night, what chance do we have to be aware when death comes? Look to your experience in dreams to know how you will fare in death. Look to your experience of sleep to discover whether or not you are truly awake." The yogas of dream and sleep are used in the Bon and Buddhist traditions of Tibet to attain liberation. Included are detailed instructions for the dream yoga including foundational practices done during the day. Dream practices are followed by sleep yoga, also known as the yoga of clear light. It is considered a more advanced practice to stay aware during deep sleep. Most Westerners do not even entertain this as a possibility.
In the secret teachings of ancient Tibet, the dream state is known as "Fourth Time", a malleable realm where the past, present, and future meet.
Düsum Khyenpa ..... (1110 – 1193) was the 1st Gyalwa Karmapa, head of the Karma Kagyu (ka rma bka’ brgyud) school of Tibetan Buddhism. Düsum Khyenpa literally means "Knower of the Three times" (or past, present and future). It was given to him to refer to knowledge of the three forms of time he gained at enlightenment including the "timeless time" of enlightened awareness.
John Hopkins....Northern New Mexico